Tuesday, August 24, 2010

More, because BT makes an excellent point

B Taylor comments, and I'll reply:

So, be careful what you wish for. While disclosure rules of Bronx (and I guess the others) only require disclosure of what you have run, Bietz' article "The Case for Public Case Disclosure", Rostrum, May 2010 seems to read in favor of disclosing all in advance.

Advance disclosure will certainly eliminate the constructive speech prep-out. But as noted the small team inherits a new problem even more daunting, the task of "prep-up". Your two varsity LD sailors will now be facing prep for 60 H-W cases, a load of 30 each to share. While the H-W team’s prep load for Hud is about one case per person, sharing the prep. And note, whether the large teams choose to do this or not is not important -- the possibility they can, or might, will compel the competitive small team to work that much harder.

If disclosure is intended to help the small competitive team, then, as the coach of a small competitive team I’ll say stop helping us! This is not the help we need.

Apologies for the naivety and if this has been discussed before, but how about reinstating a tournament culture that declares the prep-out unethical? The debate community, prominent coaches and tournament organizers, can declare that the prep-out is unfair, and specifically sharing of flows for the purpose of gaining a competitive advantage (as opposed to educational) is unfair. This would need to be top-down, from coaches to their students, implementing a step-change in the customary activity at tournaments.

In industry we often use the 80-20 rule. You can't fix everything, but if you take care of the big things you've made a significant improvement. This would apply here -- there is no way to stop the informal disclosure that happens by word of mouth when students talk between rounds. But if you eliminate the sharing of detailed flows and curb the expectation that getting a prep-out advantage is OK, you'll go a long way to minimizing the disadvantage facing the little guy today.

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Et moi:

First of all, my irony may not have been apparent. I frankly do not think that most teams want to give up any advantage whatsoever, and I do not expect anyone to accept my challenge.

More importantly, back in the Good Old Days, what you describe is absolutely the world we lived in. On the old ld-l listserver, there was a long discussion of the ethics of judges/coaches—and teammates—sharing flows. In those days, I was a strong proponent of not giving my teams flows that I had observed. This was, in fact, the norm. In a fifteen years, we have come to this.

I think the point of disclosure is to cover the fact that big, powerful teams have an advantage (an undeniable fact, regardless of its source) and to attempt to lessen that advantage. I certainly don't think the proponents, whom I consider friends, are in this mendaciously. Nonetheless, my feeling is that at this point the arguments in favor of disclosure fail on their own alleged merits. The discussion of what LD is, or has become, is a bigger and, perhaps, more interesting, albeit less controllable discussion, insofar as I don't know what we can do about it. The disclosure people are taking the step because they firmly believe it is a good thing for all, no question in my mind about that. My point with the original posting earlier was that, from everything I've seen, it's much ado about very little.

5 comments:

Tom Deal said...

as someone who has only my own anecdotal experience to indicate that disclosure does not help small schools but instead exacerbates the problem of big school dominance, i tend to agree with jim on the arguments for it defeating themselves largely. and god i love an ouroboros more than most. let's briefly look at the last 10 winners in policy debate at the TOC, generally considered the gold standard of debate by many:

2000: Greenhill School (TX)
2001: Glenbrook North (IL)
2002: Pace Academy (GA)
2003: The College Preparatory School (CA)
2004: Glenbrook North (IL)
2005: The Westminster Schools (GA)
2006: Greenhill School (TX)
2007: Glenbrook North (IL)
2008: Greenhill School (TX)
2009: The Westminster Schools (GA)
2010: The Westminster Schools (GA)

can it be that 3 schools comprise 9 of the past 11 winners? or take the past 6 years, which i would consider the contemporary period of debate at this point: only those 3 schools have won. policy has a number of factors that i think contribute to this, but disclosure could certainly be one of them. now let's look at the LD TOC without disclosure:

2000: Seamus Donovan - Edmond North High School (OK)
2001: Tom Pryor - Hopkins High School (MN)
2002: Jenn Larson - Millard West High School (NE)
2003: Andrew Garvin - Mission San Jose High School
2004: John McNeil - Edina High School (MN)
2005: David Wolfish - Greenhill School (TX)
2006: Stephen Hess - Mountain View High School
2007: Patrick Diehl - Lynbrook High School (CA)
2008: Chris Theis - Apple Valley High School (MN)
2009: Chris Theis - Apple Valley High School (MN)
2010: Catherine Tarsney - St. Louis Park High School (MN)

interestingly enough the same school has only won more than once due to the incrediblé case of chris theis. i think this points to a serious difference somewhere in the activities that allows for more competitiveness in high school LD and less in high school policy. while it is impossible to rate disclosure as the dominant variable, and i'm not trying to do that, i would like to point out that the 3 schools that have won 9/11 of the past policy TOCs are "big."

B Taylor said...

Agreed, (to be clear) I believe intentions are honorable all around.

I also believe there is value in trying things out, so we'll approach Bronx with an open mind.

Z Taylor said...

I'm in agreement that disclosure will hurt small schools. But I suspect it'll contrubite to three other trends as well:

1. It will further neg bias. The AC has more pre-written, and more to lose via prep-outs. It's easier to generate more neg positions, and even the same positions can be applied in the most strategic ways. Plus, the neg has the flexibility to adjust to the aff, so even if the aff does know potential neg cases, it can only take advantage of that knowledge for the 4 minute 1ar. The neg can take advantage of advanced knowledge for a full 7 minutes.

2. It will encourage a wider variety of positions to be written, simply so that one can run undisclosed positions.

3. It will cause fewer high-quality, creative unusual and/or kritikal positions to be run, because once something is out of the box, it can be prepped out by everyone. The strategic advantage of these cases is that they make one's opponent think on thier feet, but this will no longer be the case if a particular argument is succesful enough to attract attention and prep-outs.

The first trend is definitely negative (no pun intended) because there's enough of a bias already due to time skew and the truth-testing paradigm. The second is somewhat positive, but pretty much negated by the third.

(and if someone has already thought of some or all of the above and mentioned it on the blog, I sincerely apologize.)

Claire said...

I'll admit I haven't really been following this whole thing, so my comment is by it's very nature kind of stupid:

But, like, can't people just debate without knowing ahead of time exactly what their opponents are going to say?

It's so blindingly obvious to me that case disclosure is only going to help big programs that it's almost hard for me to coherently express why. Small teams don't have the time, research resources, older debaters, or coaching staff necessary to either prepare enough cases to have "new cases" past the minimum you must disclose nor to "prep out" the number of cases prepared by large teams.

Also: I'm much too lazy for this. I would suck if I debated now, instead of 10 years ago...case disclosure pretty much encapsulates why policy debate never held any interest for me whatsoever. The skills required/rewarded are totally different.

Phelan said...

Tom says: "can it be that 3 schools comprise 9 of the past 11 winners? or take the past 6 years, which i would consider the contemporary period of debate at this point: only those 3 schools have won."

While LD might have greater diversity of TOC champions, its not like there are many "lone wolf" or "small school" LD champs. In the past 6 years, the only true "small school" LD champ just happened to be a very talented debater who debated for 6+ years.

Claire says:

"It's so blindingly obvious to me that case disclosure is only going to help big programs that it's almost hard for me to coherently express why. Small teams don't have the time, research resources, older debaters, or coaching staff necessary to either prepare enough cases to have "new cases" past the minimum you must disclose nor to "prep out" the number of cases prepared by large teams."

Maybe I haven't said this enough times yet over the past year, but there are small schools who do in fact support disclosure. Blake, a team that had 2 Varsity LDers and an overburdened head coach, supported disclosure all of last season. While in the status quo, larger schools have the personnel to scout out competition and gather the intel; smaller programs are left in the dark. They may not be able to deal with everything, but it gives them a chance to try and counter the "big school hegemony" that exists.